Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => The Theory of Everything => Topic started by: MysticWind on February 17, 2021, 10:41:49 PM

Title: Prehistoric posts about SMAC
Post by: MysticWind on February 17, 2021, 10:41:49 PM
Found a repository of ancient Apolyton threads that some kind soul had archived for future generations:

The Old Apolyton Civilization Forums (http://www.codehappy.net/apolyton/). When the Apolyton Civilization Site took down its old discussion forums devoted to classics such as Civilization II and Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, I created a quick and dirty mirror here.

I was poking around on the last link, Other Games-Archive, which is where some SMAC talk was happening before there were dedicated AC boards, and I found these gems from the haters:

Alpha Centauri is not good (http://www.codehappy.net/apolyton/threads/12324-1.htm)

Quote
I played the demo...Very bad playability...some functions very difficult to find...Is Sid getting old ...or too rich ?
And inventions are totally unrealistics...I will not buy it ! But civ mutiplayer is just great...I can't stop defeating peoples ...


SMACABRD's 98% rating in PC Gamer (http://www.codehappy.net/apolyton/threads/12366-1.htm)

Quote
When I first heard that PC Gamer had been bribed into adding on a 10% rating, I didn't believe it, but when I saw the 98% rating I was shellshocked! I couldn't believe it! They must have been blinded from the poor multiplay, bad graphics, and dull stuff! I think it should have gotten a 75%, all in all avery average, average game.


Funny how these trolls were always around. I kinda agree with this exchange on a thread about Michael Ely (http://www.codehappy.net/apolyton/threads/106164-1.htm), though.

Quote
Yes, the user "michael_ely" who posted the topic that's stickied to the top of this forum is the real Michael Ely.


Quote
We should play him in a PBEM some time.


Quote
What makes you think his SMAC playing would be any better than his writing?


Quote
Well, it can't exactly be worse, can it?
Title: Re: Prehistoric posts about SMAC
Post by: MysticWind on February 17, 2021, 11:18:29 PM
Broadening this to be a general "old websites about SMAC" archives thread.

Found some good classic fiction on Archive.org's copy of The Chiron Archives (https://web.archive.org/web/20080515093658/http://ac.strategy-gaming.com/chiron/index1.htm)

Also found the copy of Xenofungus (https://web.archive.org/web/20030923220232/http://xenofungus.cjb.net/), complete with info (but sadly no files) for the DS9 TC project in German. For some reason the pre-2003 archives (https://web.archive.org/web/20020124044349/http://xenofungus.cjb.net/) contain scenarios that the later archives lack.
Title: Re: Prehistoric posts about SMAC
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 18, 2021, 12:17:44 AM
Have you found this yet?  https://alphacentauri2.info/ResourceCenter/index.html

-Especially the Alpha.owo archive?

We have some, watchyacall, interest in this sort of thing...
Title: Re: Prehistoric posts about SMAC
Post by: MysticWind on February 18, 2021, 12:48:20 AM
I'd be happy try to find more contact so it can be archived by this site. Would any of my finds be worth adding links to, especially the old Apolyton forums archive by Chris Street (CodeHappy)?

Also I'm still trying to find a particular webpage I found a few years ago that looked like almost pre-release cut content. It had the look of one of the Firaxis faction leader profile pages, but was missing images (so like a skeleton of the site), and I believe mentioned that the leader studied at the Royal Thai military academy or something like that. Maybe it was the draft version of the profile for Joaquin/Joaquim Ortega, the original pre-Santiago leader of Sparta?
Title: Re: Prehistoric posts about SMAC
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 18, 2021, 01:15:10 AM
Not sure I follow that second sentence.  I'd probably be interested in doing something linking.  -Faux Official Site page, maybe.

...I've been considering lately what can be done, within my tech reach, to fish what's left of CGN on the Wayback Machine off, and host...
Title: Re: Prehistoric posts about SMAC
Post by: MysticWind on February 18, 2021, 01:30:01 AM
Not sure I follow that second sentence.  I'd probably be interested in doing something linking.


From my other thread (https://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=21616.msg129980#msg129980), I'm wondering if this archive deserves to be linked to on AC2's central directory links somewhere, since it seems to be a wealth of historical information: http://www.codehappy.net/apolyton/

Quote
-Faux Official Site page, maybe.


Which one's that?
Title: Re: Prehistoric posts about SMAC
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 18, 2021, 02:06:21 AM
Pages in this style.  https://alphacentauri2.info/official/

Pretty easy.
Title: Re: Prehistoric posts about SMAC
Post by: bvanevery on February 18, 2021, 03:44:00 AM
Quote
What makes you think his SMAC playing would be any better than his writing?
Quote
Well, it can't exactly be worse, can it?
I wonder what the production role of Michael Ely was.  Someone did some good dialogue for the Morganites etc.  Perhaps I should mull over the Credits.
Title: Re: Prehistoric posts about SMAC
Post by: MysticWind on February 18, 2021, 04:36:37 AM
Based on various podcast interviews I've listened to, including an illuminating one on Three Moves Ahead (https://www.idlethumbs.net/3ma/episodes/the-alpha-centauri-show), Brian Reynolds wrote most of the in-game dialogue himself, especially the diplomacy quotes. It was a different era in game development. That said I'm wondering who else contributed to other in-game writing like the Datalinks, and the Firaxis website faction leader profiles.
Title: Re: Prehistoric posts about SMAC
Post by: bvanevery on February 18, 2021, 06:16:41 AM
Well, if you mean like what a faction leader says to you when you're interacting with them, that wouldn't shock me.  Most of it is not up to the standards of a professional writer, although it has its moments.

Whereas, the tech quotes are much more put together in most cases.  Whoever did the Morganite quotes, had some writing chops.  And a deep cynicism for corporate conferences!
Title: Re: Prehistoric posts about SMAC
Post by: MysticWind on February 19, 2021, 08:47:48 AM
Bingo. Found another archive with the goods:

http://www.datapacrat.com/Art/FIRAXIS/

Early draft version of Lal's faction profile (http://www.datapacrat.com/Art/FIRAXIS/OLDSITE/LAL.HTM), it's what I was looking for

Quote
Name: Pravin Lal
Rank: Something
Position: Chief of Surgery
Country of
Origin: India
DOB: 05-03-2046
Height: xx cm
Weight: xx kg
     
Service Record:
Educated PanMayo Clinic xxx Branch (M.D.), Royal Surgeon's College, Bangkok, Combat Surgeon, Net3 Civilian Unrest Force, 3 Tours United Nations Peacekeeping Force, Distinguished Service Award for directing holding action during Node Riots, awarded Nobel Peace Prize 2044 for work on xxx. Accepted Chief of Surgery, U.N. Alpha Centauri Mission.   
Psych Profile:


Early draft faction profile for Santiago (http://www.datapacrat.com/Art/FIRAXIS/OLDSITE/SANTIAGO.HTM)

Quote
Name: Corazon Santiago
Rank: Lieutenant
Position: Security Officer
Country of
Origin: Mexico
DOB: 05-25-2068
Height: xx cm
Weight: xx kg

Service Record:
Educated University of New Mexico, Major in Criminal Justice with Naval ROTC. Trained as NAVY SEAL, honorable discharge after 6 years. Joined U.N. Security Force, peacekeeping missions to Russian Republic, New Czech, various locs in Middle East. Applied for U.N. Alpha Centauri Mission, accepted on security team with unconditional recommendation Prime Minister Villalobos.


Based on that directory's list of files (http://www.datapacrat.com/Art/FIRAXIS/OLDSITE/GOTO.TXT), this archive was created in May 1998. Perhaps some of those links are also archived in Internet Archive, with the images intact.

Also check out this cut content:
(http://www.datapacrat.com/Art/FIRAXIS/IMAGES/FACTIONS.JPG)
(http://www.datapacrat.com/Art/FIRAXIS/IMAGES/PICKFAC.PNG)

Where did these wallpapers come from:
(http://www.datapacrat.com/Art/FIRAXIS/IMAGES/TROPHIES.JPG)
(http://www.datapacrat.com/Art/FIRAXIS/IMAGES/COMMAND.JPG)
Title: Re: Prehistoric posts about SMAC
Post by: bvanevery on February 20, 2021, 08:46:19 AM
I think I've seen some of this before, somewhere.  Can't remember where.
Title: Re: Prehistoric posts about SMAC
Post by: MysticWind on February 26, 2021, 11:04:36 PM
hah that'd be cool. old mailing list correspondence (http://www.datapacrat.com/Art/FIRAXIS/MISC/A4.TXT)

Quote
Have you decided on any of the various factions' tunes? For example, the
Morgan Conglomerate might have some industrial rock, or maybe electronic-
type beeping; the Gaian Stepdaughters could easily have some Celtic
themes, or maybe some 60's-style folk tunes; the Spartans should have a
lot of prideful, rolling drums; the Conclavists might have your standard
church organ and hymnals, or possibly something from the more oriental
temples; the Labyrinth some complex, classical instrumental fugues and
concertos; and so forth.


Quote
Have you been listening in on some of our development meetings?. All
those ideas are being checked out.
Title: Re: Prehistoric posts about SMAC
Post by: MysticWind on March 05, 2021, 01:17:40 AM
Quote
What makes you think his SMAC playing would be any better than his writing?
Quote
Well, it can't exactly be worse, can it?
I wonder what the production role of Michael Ely was.  Someone did some good dialogue for the Morganites etc.  Perhaps I should mull over the Credits.

Turns out I was wrong to bash him for the novel and the stories. He made some great stuff!

Quote from: SMAC manual appendix 5, pg. 235
Meanwhile, Mike Ely directed our Secret Projects movies, coming up with a coherent vision, doing storyboards, figuring out which movies needed licensed footage and which we should develop in-house, and working with the artists to bring Planet to life cinematically.

Quote from: ibid
Meanwhile, Mike Ely went through unending grueling casting sessions to find us seven faction leaders with good voices, acting skills, and authentic accents. Want to make Mike wince? Just sing a few bars of the “Deirdre’s got a Network Node” song.

The credits also lists him as Webmaster.
Title: Re: Prehistoric posts about SMAC
Post by: MysticWind on June 07, 2021, 05:29:05 PM
Found another one with some good graphics - claims to be "the biggest AC gallery on the web ."

https://web.archive.org/web/20021201230123/http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Stage/2252/AC.htm

(https://web.archive.org/web/20000914023721if_/http://www.geocities.com:80/TelevisionCity/Stage/2252/smac/940.jpg)
(https://web.archive.org/web/20000914023726if_/http://www.geocities.com:80/TelevisionCity/Stage/2252/smac/Datalink.jpg)
(https://web.archive.org/web/20000914023721if_/http://www.geocities.com:80/TelevisionCity/Stage/2252/smac/centauri6.jpg)
(https://web.archive.org/web/20000914023727if_/http://www.geocities.com:80/TelevisionCity/Stage/2252/smac/Navywater.jpg)
(https://web.archive.org/web/20000827162245if_/http://geocities.com:80/TelevisionCity/Stage/2252/smac/spacescape.jpg)
Title: Re: Prehistoric posts about SMAC
Post by: MysticWind on January 26, 2023, 08:20:17 AM
https://www.coroflot.com/mhaire/Computer-Games

Portfolio of SMAC art director Michael Haire, this is gold:

Quote
(https://s3images.coroflot.com/user_files/individual_files/507013__gdcbjcrmf4gbu4_tp4vqnlxg.jpg)

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri was an unofficial sequel to the incredibly successful Civilization series. Colonists from Earth vie for power on an alien world. I wrote up an initial brief on the principal characters and designed each faction leader and their emblems.

(https://s3images.coroflot.com/user_files/individual_files/507013_qwoyljnyomk3xczkmwgv4_vwt.jpg)

My original sketches are above; the final game portraits below were done by Jerome Atherholt. You see the pieces in action in the screen shots on the bottom.

(https://s3images.coroflot.com/user_files/individual_files/507013_iim3zdvmhib6wq0wpxx3ki_rj.jpg)

I designed dozens and dozens of icons for the game interface, representing technologies, social concepts, locations, etc. This is a sampling.

(https://s3images.coroflot.com/user_files/individual_files/507013_sy0fofqr6pcr7rj9sw4xbjrlr.jpg)

At game's end, one gauge of your success is the kind of (e-) book your career has inspired. Many of the titles are takeoffs on popular books ranging from great literature to self-help books. The graphic restrictions were pretty severe but it was a fun project.

(https://s3images.coroflot.com/user_files/individual_files/507013_3ldnkf695m3pu07nv_pebo8ru.jpg)


The game had many animated "cut scenes' and I helped storyboard many of them. This is one I provided to an external production company for "The Self Aware Colony", a hybrid of "1984" and Hal 9000 from "2001: A Space Odyssey". Resources for each movie were limited so I designed the action to minimize expensive elements like human animation and focused on camera cuts and sound effects to create the appropriate mood. The animations used a game specific format but you can see the final product online at: youtube.com/watch?v=iwqNSUr-wPO or at: poetv.com/video.php?vid=79631.

The Civ and Pirates! art is beautiful as well. Pure planetpearls.
Title: Re: Prehistoric posts about SMAC
Post by: MysticWind on February 03, 2023, 03:54:41 AM
DataPacRat (http://www.datapacrat.com/) archived a ton of old SMAC files (http://www.datapacrat.com/Art/FIRAXIS/) back in the day. Summary of the directory:

DIARIES/ are archives of Brian Reynold's SMAC developer diary from '98-'99, published by GameSpot.

SITE/ is the original AlphaCentauri.com (https://alphacentauri.com/) website for the game from July 1998. Tons of images in the sub-directories.

OLDSITE/ an even older copy of the site from May 1998. Contains two incredible finds that predate the Internet Archive's own- rough drafts in progress of faction profiles: Santiago (http://www.datapacrat.com/Art/FIRAXIS/OLDSITE/SANTIAGO.HTM) who was a Navy SEAL recommended by Prime Minister Villalobos, and Lal (http://www.datapacrat.com/Art/FIRAXIS/OLDSITE/LAL.HTM), who served in the Node Riots, won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2044, and has the venerable Rank of "Something." Really wish there were more of these for the other factions.

IMAGES/ is just a ton of random old image assets that were on the website or just generally floating around the web, I guess. (Like p/reviews on game sites, maybe.) I'm amused to find out that the buildings on Morgan Industries were called the Morgan Twin Towers (http://www.datapacrat.com/Art/FIRAXIS/IMAGES/MORGANCA.PNG). And hey look, the original Hive icon (http://www.datapacrat.com/Art/FIRAXIS/IMAGES/QUOTEYAN.PNG).

MISC/ has even more archived images and webpages, including non-Firaxis ones (IGN preview (http://www.datapacrat.com/Art/FIRAXIS/MISC/9941.HTM), Games Domain (http://www.datapacrat.com/Art/FIRAXIS/MISC/ALPHA.HTM) E3 coverage), and I guess pre-release notes like this (http://www.datapacrat.com/Art/FIRAXIS/MISC/A4.TXT)? Lots of old beta designs (http://www.datapacrat.com/Art/FIRAXIS/MISC/PVW_ALPH.JP1)that you can also find elsewhere like on AC2 or on the Apolyton forums, but good to see it collected here. Skeuomorphism everywhere (http://www.datapacrat.com/Art/FIRAXIS/MISC/SHOT1BIG.JPG). So many textures (http://www.datapacrat.com/Art/FIRAXIS/MISC/SHOT2.GIF).

Fun one- MISC/Quotes.txt (http://www.datapacrat.com/Art/FIRAXIS/MISC/QUOTES.TXT), a collection of early quotes, reveals some of the cut faction names. Prokhor Saratov, Director Morgan, Marshal Joachim Ortega, Academician Sorov, Keeper Pravin Lal. I assume Lal originally having written "Librarian's Preface" ties into how the game emphasizes the role of librarians, which was never explained until the GURPS sourcebook.

MOVIES/ just three teasers and trailers. Glorious late '90s Y2K futurism graphics!

MYTH/ background on the Greek mythological figures that AC features (Chiron, centaurs, etc.)

REAL/ actual astronomical information about Alpha Centauri.
Title: Re: Prehistoric posts about SMAC
Post by: Induktio on February 06, 2023, 01:38:33 PM
Regarding MOVIES folder, most of the footage seems to come from secret project movies. They don't really show actual gameplay in the trailers. Secret project movies are also separately watchable with VLC player, I think it includes support for the video format. I've been also wondering about upscaling some of these videos. There's already some results (https://old.reddit.com/r/alphacentauri/comments/10ige9l/all_smac_monument_images_upscaled_4x_using_ai/) of upscaling monument images on reddit, the results were generally really good for that sort of graphics.
Title: Re: Prehistoric posts about SMAC
Post by: BFG on February 14, 2023, 04:43:23 AM
Looking at the tech icons, and assuming this is the complete lineup (not just a "sampling"), there's a few interesting things to note:
(1) They appear largely to entirely unchanged from the final versions.
(2) They are mostly in order, with the exceptions of techs 13, 19 and 40 (High Energy Chemistry, Matter Compression, and Photon/Wave Mechanics respectively), which are appended to the end.  That may indicate they were late adds or reworked somehow.
(3) Even at this point, there's no separate icons for the two "lost" techs, #24 Inertial Damping and #70 Global Energy Theory.  Their icons are duplicates of #26 Singularity Mechanics and #75 Sentient Economeetrics respectively, so it's also possible the latter two didn't exist yet.

Oh: and if anyone has time/interest, these would be GREAT adds for the Cutting Room Floor page on Alpha Centauri.  The entire site's about this sort of stuff: https://tcrf.net/Sid_Meier%27s_Alpha_Centauri
Title: Re: Prehistoric posts about SMAC
Post by: MysticWind on February 23, 2023, 06:21:23 AM
Poking around the archives of the defunct SMAC Planet (https://web.archive.org/web/19991012064227/http://www.gamesta.com/smacplanet/links.htm) site, run by one Josh Monson, led me to this also defunct site (https://web.archive.org/web/20001003045334/http://www.novagene.com/smacbryce/) created by one Novagene (aka Gene Lyons):

(https://web.archive.org/web/20001003045334im_/http://www.novagene.com/smacbryce/images/smac_bryce_logo.JPG)

Quote
This site is devoted to those of us so obsessed and addicted to Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri that when we're not actually playing it, we're building it with Bryce 3D. Here you can find downloadable predesigned objects that you can import into your own SMAC realms, request full-screen (800x600 BMPs)free via email, and hop to other related sites.

The following tools were used to construct this site:
   Allaire HomeSite 4.0
   Adobe Photoshop 5.0
   MetaCreations Painter 5.5 Web Edition
   MetaCreations Byrce 3D 4.0


A Chaos Interceptor:

(https://web.archive.org/web/20010124055800im_/http://www.novagene.com/smacbryce/images/chaos_interceptor.jpg)

A University base:

(https://web.archive.org/web/20010124055800im_/http://www.novagene.com/smacbryce/images/university1.jpg)

Sadly, the archives seemed to have been made during an earlier, flakier version of the Wayback Machine, so few images have been archived. We are left wondering what their rendering of faction portrayals (https://web.archive.org/web/20010208205506/http://www.novagene.com/smacbryce/thumbnails.html) would have looked like. Forever lost to the mists of time of the internet.

Funnily enough, I had just recently been recommended a nostalgic retrospective on Bryce 3D recently by the YouTube algorithm:

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