Alpha Centauri 2

Community => Chiron News Network => Topic started by: sisko on June 27, 2012, 06:18:04 PM

Title: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: sisko on June 27, 2012, 06:18:04 PM
neutral_leader (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?u=132860) from CFC wants to Take Matters into Our Own Hands:

Quote
Let's all get real for just a moment: no one is going to make SMAC 2 for us. Not EA, not 2k, not Firaxis, nobody. And, let's be honest, after seeing CiV do any of us trust them to anyway? If we want it done, and I know many of us do, we have to do it ourselves, and there's no reason we can't. The modding community has access to tremendous amounts of source for CIV and inexhaustible talent. We can make this happen, and I want to see it happen. I want it for myself but, at the risk of sounding too fanatical, I want it for my children. I learned so much from that game as a teenager (I still manage to impress people with my many memorized quotes) and I want my kids and all of yours to be able to enjoy a modernized version. What's more, I read the forums and I know you guys want it too.

What I propose is that we produce an independent, open source modernization of original SMAC plus SMACX. I have tried to raise interest before in a total conversion mod for CIV or CiV, but there has been little response in those forums, and a stand-alone development will provide the best opportunities for development and refinement independent of Firaxis and without the damn thing breaking every time a patch is released. I'm not a programmer, but I can help coordinate efforts, code XML, and translate user interface in a number of languages. If we can get a couple of programmers and a couple of graphics guys interested, we can get off to a good start.

The chief design principle, as I see it, should be conservatism. It would be too great an undertaking to try to produce an entirely new game and many of us really just want an update on the classic anyway. Mods can satisfy whatever hankering for a sequel anyone may have. To that end, I think our aim should be maximum use of original game text, sounds, and artwork (although on-map graphics could stand a major update). That also makes the job a little easier. For the most part, technologies, facilities, improvements, units, etc. would be just as in the original. So what should change? The following I regard as essential changes to modernize:

Graphics
Although much still artwork can be used from the original, city, unit, and terrain graphics need a major overhaul to be brought up to speed with CIV and CiV.

User Interface
So many little improvements have been made to this since '99, like the ability to see what cities are producing right on the map and the ability to move units in groups. Interface should be brought up to CIV standards.

Number of Factions on one map
Seriously.

Multiplayer
Simultaneous turns would be nice, for starters.

Besides this, there are a lot of developments in the Civ series featurally that I think could be fun inclusions to base SMAC with minimal adaptation: culture and attendant mechanisms (reflecting ideological influence), promotions, hexagons, city states (which could be an interesting way of implementing the Data Angels and possibly also the Nautilus Pirates, as they would not have very strong centralized governance anyway), and even religion (where the religions would represent global infrastructure projects like the Planetary Datalinks or the Planetary Energy Grid that, CiV style, would provide bonuses to the faction founding them and to all of the cities that link into them). Whether or not to implement these (and how to do so if they are wanted) can be a matter for further discussion once we have a project team together.

It won't be easy, but it will be fun and it will be worthwhile..


anyone willing to join his project?
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Kilkakon on July 06, 2012, 05:32:24 PM
If I'm honest, not really. :( I have enough projects as it is and the rather poor response to my SMAC project hasn't helped morale towards the game.
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Green1 on August 04, 2012, 08:09:38 AM
I am interested to see how it turns out. But, you have to admit the OP over there has it right. Short of something like that, it is going to be a cold day in hell before you see any attempt to update SMAC/X.

That said, I am a bit leary of the direction it is taking going the FreeCiv route. But, I reserve judgement. I have a few days off and I am going to sit with FreeCiv and see what I think.

I was really hoping Scient, Kyrub, or someone else could just put the only main complaints I have with SMAX. I liked the approach those guys used doing it as a "patch". But I will agree, where the posters are going on Civ Fanatics would be a bit easier. Probably would require a bit less arcane skill.

Basically.. what i would love is.

-14 Factions.
-Way bring higher res textures in. (Does not have to be 3d) I lurk, and rarely post places, but I know BU would have a nerdgasm :)
-A bit better AI at times.

Notice, no TCMs..no "total redo", no taking a lot of things out. Just a loyal true blue update.

I suspect this, if it really happens, may be like Planetfall but on a FreeCiv engine. I hope I am wrong. Just like I have a strange feeling something will happen to the Courisity rover like what happened to another probe I was excited about, Phobos-Grunt. I hope I am wrong...
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 04, 2012, 03:13:51 PM
Welcome to AC2, Green!

I have to say that I pretty much agree.  Should things get rolling, I certainly support the project, but it's a crazily ambitious notion that I'd be surprized to see succeed.  Us SMACers are a flighty bunch.

...It's sorta like being, as you say, nervous about the latest Mars probe after the Martians have shot so many probes down...
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Earthmichael on August 05, 2012, 05:38:01 AM
All I really want to see with an update to SMAC is the same type of thing I wanted to see with MOO2, instead of the total screwed up redo that MOO3 turned out to be.  What I want is:

1. Recompiled and libraries updated to work natively with Windows 7.
2. Networking using Windows 7 standards for easy multiplayer games.
3. Bug files directly incorporated in the game, no patches needed.
4. Ability to set up games like a MOD does now with far less aggrevation, so that two players can set up a custom game without needed a moderator.
5. Retain the ability to create custom factions/rules/etc. for player generated mods.

What I DO NOT think is important is:
1. Graphics updates.  Player mods can take care of these if needed.
2. Game changes of any kind other than bug fixes and simultaneous play (although I think simultaneous play could have issues).  It may be that simultaneous play only works until two unfriendly factions come into contact, then reverts to serial play.  My biggest concern with adding simultaneous play is that it may double the effort for the project.

If the changes are limited to what I posted above, I believe the project is doable, and I would be willing to help with coding it, assuming that we could get permission to use the original source code as a starting point.  If we can't get the original source code, I think the project will be way to difficult to attempt in our spare time.
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Kilkakon on August 05, 2012, 06:39:28 AM
You're right in saying that scope creep is a killer here. Creating a game like this can be a never ending story if it's not handled properly.

I will have to make a TBS engine eventually. :S
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Green1 on August 05, 2012, 05:41:14 PM
@Earthmicheal.
I agree 99 percent. I think even the (I guess formerly because even the idea of an open sourced AC brought me out of the woodwork) lurkers like myself agree with you.

One of the problems is any serious discussion of wide ranging updates that would really solve most of the issues is CENSORED most places. Now, I know that many forum boards are insanely defensive about any .exe mods or recompiling of any kind. At Civ Fanatics, you have to be careful. Even though I recognize the names of the mods and I do think secretly they would go "hell yeah", any discussions like that would be squished. Of course, I see no point. Most of us do not I guess either. This game is borderline abandonware and over 10 years old. Consider some classics of the past, particularly from the 1980s. If it was not for those modders, no one would be able to play it. Archon for the C64 is like this. All abandonware copies proudly read "cracked by xx" and are the only copies available.

As far as graphics, as long as the graphics are serviceable and are not so bad I think I am playing on a Commodore 64, I have no issues. SMACX, I can deal with and it works fine. Would I love it if the gorgeous Planetfall terrain made it in without the aberration it made of terraforming and kept things the same? I think all of us would nerdgasm. But, the FreeCiv engine looks like something out of the era of the IBM PC jr and C128/64. That is just unbearable.

Redo or rewrite using existing code would be the way to go. However, I am not so sure the communities between the 4 respective forums (Apolyton, WPC, CF, AC2, maybe missing another.. jeesh you guys move too much..) that there is the sheer talent and manpower to do it. The only ones I know are Scient and Kyrub. Excellent work they did. I am using SMAX patch plus, and I can tell you. It is a much better game. But, more would be needed for something like that. The changes to do like you said is a HUGE undertaking.

I also agree and reiterate... no additions or subtractions. That said, there are a few things I think that would be cool and groundbreaking but would be another tbs engine in and of itself which brings me to..

@Kilkalon

YES! A good tbs engine would be great from the ground up. A hell of a lot of work and knowledge needed and can pyrimids of Monster energy drink. Hell, I wish I could code. I decided to take up therapy and not Comp Sci. Too many folks with comp sci and networking degrees ending up working at Subway for my tastes. Ever read DICE job boards? If something serious comes and there is a consensus, I would alpha test and bring out the MS paint to do QA reports, though. I am good at communicating. As long as I am allowed to suggest changes on the design level. I would be a good person for that because many folks just go "This SUCKs.. You SUCK..blah blah" without any constructive points or good documetation to back up thier claims or without suggesting alternatives that do not require the coder 500 hours of tedius hell just for them! You got to have empathy. Modders and coders are not your personal army.

Which brings me to an idea I do not thing ANYONE has ever done. You know, no one has ever done space warfare right. I am not talking FTL travel like in Gal Civ. I am talking Hieinlin style interplanetary warfare in a solar system. Or even moon/planet warfare. I mean Planet had moons where they put mining colonies and orbital platforms. But.. the options there are so bare compared to what they could have done. Nor has anyone gotten a space program right. Now, for SMAC, not sure an extra layer like that would be too wise. After all, the story is about Planet and the sentient natives, not the moons or any other planets in the AC system. Or even low planet orbit.  I read Space War Daily, tons of hard sci fi, and have the Planetary Society blog and UMSF on favorites in my browser. But, this is another topic for another time and detracts from a possible AC fan remake/mod effort.
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 05, 2012, 05:47:02 PM
...I haven't discussed it with my partner, but we would be thrilled to host something here.  It could have its own forum and all.  Sisko will probably have more to say on this, but where better to work on AC2 than AC2?
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Green1 on August 06, 2012, 03:52:06 AM
...I haven't discussed it with my partner, but we would be thrilled to host something here.  It could have its own forum and all.  Sisko will probably have more to say on this, but where better to work on AC2 than AC2?

No need probably yet. Unless there are PMs and IMs going back and forth, it seems to be talk. However, one of the guys posting on that thread there is a FreeCiv admin who does actually code. Do not recognize the other names except Kilkakon. So who knows, one of those guys talking may be Scient far all I know.

But, something needs to be done. Let's let the pot simmer to a boil a bit more :) SMAX fans need to stir.
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 06, 2012, 04:08:07 AM
...Shall I call scient's attention to this?  I've got him on Skype.

I know a few people who'd be useful on this if they chose to be.  I've sorta been looking to see if this amounted to anything, but I could encourage a few parties...
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Green1 on August 06, 2012, 04:11:48 AM
It would not hurt, I suppose. A name like Scient would really "stir the pot"!
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 06, 2012, 04:14:18 AM
I just sent him a link.
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Green1 on August 06, 2012, 04:34:36 AM
Love to hear his reaction on it.

I hope I am not too harsh on the FreeCiv approach in that thread. But, something is wrong when my eyes bleed from the awful graphics and I have to read a wiki just to turn a settler into a city on my first turn. But, I do not think I am alone. I can also see why the FreeCiv guys would love an attempt using thier engine. Hell, folks working on it would have to rebuild almost the whole durn thing to get it up to standards. They do have one advantage: existing code that does work.
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Kilkakon on August 06, 2012, 04:40:29 AM
There's potential for me to contribute some work towards something like this, mainly as it would be excellent practice for me doing something commerical (I want to do an X-COM clone for Android/iOS as my first game).

Still I'm not one for reinventing the wheel--FreeCiv is like 90% what we'd need as a base, just redo the UI and add more functionality into the areas I mentioned on CFC. That's like, probably a year of dev time already saved. :|
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 06, 2012, 04:56:01 AM
...And of course we're well-fixed for the graphical aspect of the UI...
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Green1 on August 06, 2012, 05:14:07 AM
There's potential for me to contribute some work towards something like this, mainly as it would be excellent practice for me doing something commerical (I want to do an X-COM clone for Android/iOS as my first game).

Still I'm not one for reinventing the wheel--FreeCiv is like 90% what we'd need as a base, just redo the UI and add more functionality into the areas I mentioned on CFC. That's like, probably a year of dev time already saved. :|

I have a sneaking suspicion that these new Windows 8 phones and tablets are going to put the hurt on iOS and Android (Linux). I think the main complaint folks have with those products is it does not play anything except stuff designed for it.  But, a Windows product would play anything PC providing the system requirements are there. XCom is a interesting choice. Not too much tactics level TBS stuff out there anymore.

As far as you possibly working on it, who knows. You do know that Kael, the guy behind the Civ 4 Fall from Heaven mod (which is almost commercially good) ended up getting hired by Frogboy to Stardock to fix the Elemental :War of Magic fiasco. I mean, lead design! How lucky. Work is turning out to be pretty good from dev reports. Heck, maybe you would luck up.

I agree with you on "reinventing the wheel". Unless someone else comes along with something better, the FreeCiv offer may be the more realistic choice. Altering the source code of SMAX directly seems to take skill that is not available or a lot more work from less folks that could help.
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Kilkakon on August 06, 2012, 05:25:49 AM
I suppose we'll have to see what the FreeCiv guy says on CFC and see where that goes!
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Green1 on August 06, 2012, 05:48:01 AM
Civ Fanatics has always, from my lurking, been considered nuetral ground. I also think in his posts he is talking directly to rcb. He is also trying to sell rcb on the fact that without mods, FreeCiv could handle at least the tech requirements and basic rules. But, I have never been on FreeCiv forums and I doubt anyone from the 4 major AC forums have been there, either. Nor do I think they come to us. I do not think he knows the players of AC. Nor do I think we know the players of FC. We need a convention. The pot must be stirred for the ingredients to mix :) Hopefully, all the ingredients agree with each other. Hell, I need to lurk there, too.
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Earthmichael on August 06, 2012, 06:53:55 AM
Has anyone looked at whether we can get the source code to the last published version of SMAC and SMACX?

If we can, I feel confident that between myself and the other talent, we can bring the code up to Windows 7 standards.

If we can't, then I don't think it is likely that the project can be done at all.

Earthmichael
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Green1 on August 06, 2012, 11:57:22 PM
Has anyone looked at whether we can get the source code to the last published version of SMAC and SMACX?

If we can, I feel confident that between myself and the other talent, we can bring the code up to Windows 7 standards.

If we can't, then I don't think it is likely that the project can be done at all.

Earthmichael

That there is the 20 million energy credit question. Actual source code, I doubt it unless former Firaxis employees are hiding under callsigns.

Decompiled/ disassembled source code (if possible) would be a total different matter. But that is probably hush-hush, if it has been done at all. I doubt you are going to get a "legal" source code like what Richard Garriot did with some of his Ultimas.

But, I am just guessing. That is totally out of my area. I do not even know what language the game was programed in originally. Nor would I personally know even where to begin.
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Green1 on August 08, 2012, 05:39:42 PM
I have been thinking a little bit more about terrain, as I think that would be one of the toughest to implement after the AI. I heard in an interview with Reynolds long time back that this particular feature of SMAC was almost cut due to running behing schedule it was turning out to be so complex! I am glad it made it in. However you notice no other Civ ever went that way again!

Question is:

Civ 2/3/4 has no elevation. The tiles are just flavors. You have "open" terrain such as forests that cost movement points and give certain bonuses in the city screen. You have ocean tiles only able to be moved through by units of a certain "class" (in SMAX case chassis). You have mountain terrains that are impassable and yeild nothing in city screen.

Now, I think one simple hack would be to alter the graphic tile of the impassable mountian to a passable/improvable high elevation tile. Since the AI deals with pathing as it is on random maps, I believe this would be painless. But still, that would only leave 3 flavors of hieght: high (former mountian), other tiles, and sea tiles. However, this would be a "quick" fix. When you start getting to Solar Shades, etc, just having 3 tiers of elavation is going to be a problem.

My question is this: Is SMAX terrain full 3d? Or is each tile just given an entry under attributes called "elevation" that affects what tile the map shows? Or could AC actually use a "tiered" effect for terrain? So let's say global warming happens, sea level rises. Bump all squares down a tier.
No need for a complex map generator that has exact numbers for terrain.

Hopefully this question makes sense.

EDIT: Oh yes. Another issue. Some  SMAX terrain offers "concealment". I have not seen concealment in Civ. Just fog of war.
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 08, 2012, 05:46:23 PM
SMAC(X) basically has seven tiers; the numbers go from -1000 to +5000, but functionally, it counts by thousands...
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Green1 on August 08, 2012, 05:53:12 PM
So.. if it is only 7 tiers, there is an upper and lower limit to terrain raising and lowering effects? The only difference is the graphic the engine is pointed to display for that tile? Of course.. along with checks to bring pop-ups if a major city does not have a pressure dome and is about to be swallowed or other things?

--Also.. where in SMAX folder are these tile graphics? I want to look at the different kinds of terrain and how original SMAX classifies them.
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 08, 2012, 06:08:06 PM
You're looking for texture.pcx and ter1.pcx in the root folder.  I doubt they'll tell you what you want.

The elevation has climate effects, and you can't have a +2100m tile next to a +10m tile.  You've got five land tiers and two water ones, all of which have to be adjacent to tile not in excess of 1,999 higher or lower.  Again, notwithstanding the elevation number the game gives, it rounds off to thousands.
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Green1 on August 08, 2012, 06:25:53 PM
You're looking for texture.pcx and ter1.pcx in the root folder.  I doubt they'll tell you what you want.

The elevation has climate effects, and you can't have a +2100m tile next to a +10m tile.  You've got five land tiers and two water ones, all of which have to be adjacent to tile not in excess of 1,999 higher or lower.  Again, notwithstanding the elevation number the game gives, it rounds off to thousands.

Tier rules actually make sense. Because it is not true 3d, you would only have a level version and slope [direction] version of the base terrain without templates such as improvements, arid/moist, coastal, rocky, special such as monsoon jungle, etc. While sheer cliffs would be cool, I could see where this would create problems in the display if you had too much of that going on.

You are right, though. It is a bit arcane to my untrained eye. Pardon while I get someting to open the now defunct DOS era .psx format :) I still want to see what they did.
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Petek on August 08, 2012, 08:48:45 PM
Howdy, just found this thread. I haven't been participating in the discussion at CFC, since I doubt that anything will come of it. (For those who don't know, I'm the moderator of CFC's SMAC forum). Some comments:

* Source code: It's not known whether it even exists anymore. Scient tried to get some information about it, but ran into a dead end. If it does exist, it's owned by EA. ISTR that Brian Reynolds said he doesn't have it, or know who does.
* This link (http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2011/09/15/three-moves-ahead-episode-134-the-alpha-centauri-show/) points to a podcast in which Brian and Soren Johnson discuss SMAC. It's been about a year since I listened to it (and it's an hour and 20 minutes long). I believe they discuss the IP rights.
* I don't have any coding or graphics skills, but would be glad to help test the program.

I hope that this project gets going!
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Green1 on August 09, 2012, 08:37:17 AM
Howdy, just found this thread. I haven't been participating in the discussion at CFC, since I doubt that anything will come of it. (For those who don't know, I'm the moderator of CFC's SMAC forum). Some comments:

* Source code: It's not known whether it even exists anymore. Scient tried to get some information about it, but ran into a dead end. If it does exist, it's owned by EA. ISTR that Brian Reynolds said he doesn't have it, or know who does.
* This link (http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2011/09/15/three-moves-ahead-episode-134-the-alpha-centauri-show/) points to a podcast in which Brian and Soren Johnson discuss SMAC. It's been about a year since I listened to it (and it's an hour and 20 minutes long). I believe they discuss the IP rights.
* I don't have any coding or graphics skills, but would be glad to help test the program.


These facts sadden me. I personally view SMAC/X as abandonware.  I think it is the personal responsibility for historical reasons to preseve SMAC/X as a historical work. I doubt anyone with the know how would dare want to do this for personal financial gain other than a feather in a cap to gain game industry employment. I sincerely doubt there are DMCA ninjas waiting to jump down if anyone decompiles/ .exe mods/clones this ancient work. If anything, they would be heroes.

EDIT:

In fact, I have modern day proof.

Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic was released in 2002. Like SMAX is revolutionary in it's genre, AoW is in it's: no other game has matched it in tactical combat in a fantasy setting on a 4x map. Now, unlike, SMAX, AoW is still owned by Triumph Studios. Now many folks still crave AoW matches but were dissapointed by the Elemental fiasco. A large MP clan from Russia "took matters in thier own hands" like the forum title and made a huge patch using .exe mods. I must say, it is impressive. Triumph, EULA regardless, did not do anythig to them. In fact, they expressed thanks.
I hope that this project gets going!

Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Earthmichael on August 09, 2012, 04:13:48 PM
I think the .exe mod is great example, but I personally do not have the time or inclination to try to reverse engineer the SMAC code. 

I do not know who in particular has the right to publish the code, but I suggest that whoever does be asked to publish it as open source.  Then I would be glad to take the time to bring the game up to Windows 7/8 standards and networking.  But not otherwise.

Earthmichael
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Green1 on August 09, 2012, 10:42:28 PM
So, with that note, as a player you are in the hands of the few people who know how to do it. IF they want to do it when it comes to .exe modding. I think Kyrub and Scient got bugged relentlessly to where I do not even see them post anymore over 4 forums.

Speaking of which, AC2 should probably be one more mirror for the SMAX Plus patch. From reading, it is pretty much the standard nowadays. It really does help things.

Beginning to believe Petek on this. All talk. Plus, unlike AoW:SM example I gave, we do not have the sheer number of fans. But, interesting talk nonetheless.

That said, the FreeCiv may have something come of it. But it is not shiney and will attract even less folks than SMAX. If you were a modder, which would you rather work on? A Civ 5/ Civ 4 mod that looks pretty and has thousands of playtesters and can be gotten pretty easily? Or a SMAX deal that may get 100 that is only available through DL sites and an expansion available through expensive E-Bay or -cough- shady means? Although I do see the SMAX patch got thousands of downloads at WPC/Apolyton.
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 09, 2012, 11:25:04 PM
There comes a point in any project where someone has to take initiative and start doing something...
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: rcb on August 14, 2012, 09:03:45 PM
Hi! I'm the same rcb guy from CFC thread.

As I said in that thread somewhere, I am a long time SMAC player. I also have wanted to code a TBS game since playing Civ. So the reason I am doing this is because I've wanted to do it for ages.

Also, I did not frequent CFC, here, Apolyton or anywhere else (something which I am going to change). So it was a very stimulating surprise to find out that there are so many people still playing SMAC! This is also something which I will keep in mind while working on the "still nameless" open source AC clone. Of course, I don't believe I can pull this off alone; but I guess that if I can make it get some traction, other people might become interested, and join.

What I have done so far was to try to find out what is the situation with previous efforts, and try to contact relevant groups. I am mailing Cazfi privately; he is developing a tutorial for freeciv ruleset creators, so I am creating a ruleset from his template, and giving him feedback.

I have written an email to the freecivAC mailing list; telling them that since their project is GPL I am forking it, but would love to continue where they left off (the last blip on that radar is from 2003). So right now I am going forward with the "updating" of the freecivAC ruleset for freeciv for it to work ("work" meaning here "not crashing with") a recent version  of freeciv. In other words, I copied their code, but until I hear from them, I can't say exactly what is going on with that.

Last, but not least, I do agree that at some point someone has to shut up and start making it happen; and that's what I am doing. As soon as I have something interesting to share, I will do it (in one of the forums). Cheers!
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: Green1 on August 15, 2012, 11:02:36 AM
Hi! I'm the same rcb guy from CFC thread.

As I said in that thread somewhere, I am a long time SMAC player. I also have wanted to code a TBS game since playing Civ. So the reason I am doing this is because I've wanted to do it for ages.

Also, I did not frequent CFC, here, Apolyton or anywhere else (something which I am going to change). So it was a very stimulating surprise to find out that there are so many people still playing SMAC! This is also something which I will keep in mind while working on the "still nameless" open source AC clone. Of course, I don't believe I can pull this off alone; but I guess that if I can make it get some traction, other people might become interested, and join.

What I have done so far was to try to find out what is the situation with previous efforts, and try to contact relevant groups. I am mailing Cazfi privately; he is developing a tutorial for freeciv ruleset creators, so I am creating a ruleset from his template, and giving him feedback.

I have written an email to the freecivAC mailing list; telling them that since their project is GPL I am forking it, but would love to continue where they left off (the last blip on that radar is from 2003). So right now I am going forward with the "updating" of the freecivAC ruleset for freeciv for it to work ("work" meaning here "not crashing with") a recent version  of freeciv. In other words, I copied their code, but until I hear from them, I can't say exactly what is going on with that.

Last, but not least, I do agree that at some point someone has to shut up and start making it happen; and that's what I am doing. As soon as I have something interesting to share, I will do it (in one of the forums). Cheers!

Thanks, man. There are times I wish I pursued a life of code. My father did back in the days of punchcards and room sized machines, but I took a different path.

There are quite a bit of AC fans. But most of them are lurkers and do not post. They are also spread thin over like 4 forums although none of those 4 move very fast as opposed boards of more popular games where your post is lost amongst hundreds of other voices and trolls. AC is more of a cult classic thing.

I hear you about forking. It will be a lot less pulling hair to get done.

I am glad you will be sharing on forums. I think that developers not talking to thier users is kind of a bad thing. In fact I was kind of bothered when I heard the post that the FreeCic forums had been down for going on 1-2 months... because "developers do not have time to go there anyways".. and they would rathered code. Maybe it is just my perception. Very hard to view emotion in text. Pretty soon you end up with a game only the coders play if that stance is taken. Although, I do agree with the stance the Battle of Wesnoth folks take: we code the kind of game we like not the game you want in particular, but if something sounds cool and as log as the game is not garbage, we will take it. You do not want to listen to every litle troll.

The strategy crowd in particular tend to be more intellegent and mature folks than say, a PvP MMO crowd would be. I think everyone here would love to give feedback/ help as our talents allow/ and give CONSTRUSTIVE not DESTRUCTIVE feedback.
Title: Re: A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake
Post by: rcb on August 15, 2012, 05:37:51 PM
I really look forward for the day when I can ask you guys to playtest the thing. Perhaps having real fans criticizing whatever is done spurs me (or other devs) to get it done with greater quality - to everyone's benefit.

As far as I know, Wesnoth is not a porting of an original game, so they are free to design their own game. Since we want to port the original AC, there is not much room for design. Of course it will never be an exact copy, but it should play the same. 

Getting to a more practical issue, a former dev of the freecivAC ruleset confirmed that nobody has been interested in that project since 2003, and that he will add me as a dev on the sourceforge repository, so that I can update the files, the site, etc. So I will from now on call this project freecivAC, that is, I am reactivating that project and picking up where they left, and keeping the name. I find it deliciously recursive that I am reactivating an abandoned project to port an abandoned game :)

For the time being, I will concentrate on the phase of this project to get AC rules and features into freeciv as much as possible. As soon as it is playable, I will bring it to the forums and ask for playtesters, and criticism. This should take quite a while, but should also be a lot of fun :)
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