Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => The Theory of Everything => Topic started by: Metaliturtle on July 03, 2015, 03:08:44 AM

Title: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Metaliturtle on July 03, 2015, 03:08:44 AM

All new or noobish players feel free to ask questions too, I'm going to ask mine as they come up.

What is your preferred starting strategy and why?


(think build order, using the governor, etc.)

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 03, 2015, 03:10:17 AM

Build/explore.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Metaliturtle on July 03, 2015, 03:12:25 AM

so what do you build first?

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 03, 2015, 03:21:37 AM

Another scout, followed by a colony pod because the base never grows fast enough to build the pod first.  Followed by facilities as the techs turn up w/ more pods an option depending on the map.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Metaliturtle on July 03, 2015, 03:24:51 AM

ICS a thing in SMAC?

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 03, 2015, 03:27:00 AM

Oh yes.

I don't do it because I'm a builder and stunting my bases someday with crowding is RIGHT OUT, but many swear by it.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Metaliturtle on July 03, 2015, 03:28:07 AM

I was curious, gonna do a test play quick and see how ridiculous I can make it. 

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 03, 2015, 03:35:24 AM

Every third square is how ridiculous.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 03, 2015, 04:11:26 AM

...And by now you've found out that a half hour is not enough for a 'quick' test and that SMACX is still Technicolor crack...

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Metaliturtle on July 03, 2015, 04:38:39 AM

It's very powerful, I'll need to increase difficulty

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 03, 2015, 04:41:43 AM

Yes.

Kinda game-breaking early on.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Metaliturtle on July 03, 2015, 04:42:41 AM

Was fun to see though, 25 bases there is a mechanic to nerf your powerful spread but on the easiest difficulty by that point you've won.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Mart on July 03, 2015, 03:47:17 PM

Quote from: metaliturtle on July 03, 2015, 04:38:39 AM

It's very powerful, I'll need to increase difficulty

ICS is not completely 100% winning strategy, like I remember back on Apolyton, some players were using ICS and loosing at the same time to some other strategies performed by very good players.
AI is not very smart though, but it uses ICS-ish strategies on landmarks. E.g. on monsoon jungle.
Observing the game, one could say, that despite AI doing ICS on landmarks, it was not a strategy planned by game designers as a basic/standard one.

SMACX has a problem of excessive micromanagement, which may be not that bad on small maps, but often, you want to have standard size or larger map to play a bit more builder style.
There is room for improvement of SMACX mechanics, and having such improved basic Mod would be good. That has not happened yet.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Metaliturtle on July 04, 2015, 06:36:46 PM

I'm guessing that means the governor doesn't do a very good job?

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 04, 2015, 06:45:38 PM

The gub'ner indeed does not.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Metaliturtle on July 04, 2015, 07:01:59 PM

so if you were to re-write the governors, using the existing 4 categories, what would each governor do?

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 04, 2015, 07:13:08 PM

Oh, not so much different - only a lot less stupid, for a preference.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Metaliturtle on July 04, 2015, 07:14:16 PM

That's really useful :P

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 04, 2015, 07:16:34 PM

Sorry; Mart will have a much better answer.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Eadee on July 04, 2015, 09:20:27 PM

Quote from: metaliturtle on July 03, 2015, 03:24:51 AM

ICS a thing in SMAC?

What does ICS mean?

Also, how I start a usual game:

I usually build a Former or a Recycling Tank first if I have the corresponding tech (through starting tech or Unity-capsule) and if Mineral income is higher than food-income.
If I have none of these techs or Food income is already great while Minerals suck, I simply start with the Colonypod or Scout-Colonypod opening.

I never use the governor for anything than deploying workers to tiles. Its painfull to set the governor to this setting in every city but I hate to loose controll over building queues.

Also I do blind research but I change the goals very often to get the techs I want. The first techs I try to get are: Biogenetics - Social Psych - Ethical Calculus - Gene Splicing(to be able to get 3+ Nutrients per square). If the tiles of my Base suck, I squeeze Centaury Ecology in (but most of the time I'm playing Gaians anyways). And if I start as Lal then I go Social Psych - Secrets of the Human Brain to get the bonus-Tech. I usually try to get rid of the early game restrictions as soon as possible (Ecological Engineering for Minerals and Environmental Economics for Energy.)

I use the formers to improve Special Ressource-Tiles to maximum yield (the early game restrictions do not apply to these tiles) and try to get at least two tiles per base with good nutrient yield. I build a lot of forests early since they yield every ressource and spread on their own so I can save terraformer time.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Metaliturtle on July 04, 2015, 09:28:06 PM

ICS is Infinite City Sprawl.  Really could probably call it IBS (infinite base sprawl) except I've got roots in CIV...  Do you push nutrients for growth?  what does that advantage get you?

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 04, 2015, 09:34:27 PM

Ninja'd before I could answer.  Eadee, the other owner is Romanian and half the membership here is not native English speakers, so no worries on that - your English looks fine.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Eadee on July 04, 2015, 10:31:22 PM

Quote from: metaliturtle on July 04, 2015, 09:28:06 PM

ICS is Infinite City Sprawl.  Really could probably call it IBS (infinite base sprawl) except I've got roots in CIV...  Do you push nutrients for growth?  what does that advantage get you?

Well more nutrients does mean more people, more people does mean more tiles to work and more colonypods. More tiles to work means more ressources (again nutrients, but energy and minerals as well). More colonypods mean more bases etc...
It just feels as if focusing on nutrients early is a more exponential growth in the whole economy than focusing on minerals or energy.

Quote from: BUncle on July 04, 2015, 09:34:27 PM

Ninja'd before I could answer.  Eadee, the other owner is Romanian and half the membership here is not native English speakers, so no worries on that - your English looks fine.

Thanks, I'm just careful when joining new communities because sometimes I try to explain things and the words I choose really upset people because they don't get what I mean or even feel offendet by things I never meant to be offensive. I'll change the signature when I feel that I know the community better and when I'm sure you can handle a mishap on my side.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Metaliturtle on July 04, 2015, 10:48:20 PM

Thanks Eadee for the response (no worries about the language btw, English is my native language and I make it very flawed most of the time)

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Yitzi on July 05, 2015, 05:06:40 PM

Quote from: This guy sucks on July 04, 2015, 07:01:59 PM

so if you were to re-write the governors, using the existing 4 categories, what would each governor do?

Explore would seek to increase the number of bases, via exploration units and colony pods.  Crawlers go here too, because they're most useful when you have a lot of territory they can use without taking squares from your bases.  A few projects would fit here, but not many.  It would seek to increase nutrients in low-population bases (so that they have the pop to build pods), and minerals in higher-value bases, but limit energy considerations to avoiding drone riots.

Build would seek to increase the value of bases, via formers and most facilities.  A significant number of projects would fit here as well.  It would seek to increase nutrients whenever not pop-capped, minerals whenever there's something to build, psych whenever it will avoid riots or give a golden age, and economy all the time (but to a lesser extent than minerals or nutrients).

Discover would seek to increase tech, via tech-boosting facilities; some projects fit here as well.  It would seek to boost labs, with everything else secondary.

Conquer would seek to boost army strength, via military facilities/projects and a lot of units.  It would seek to boost minerals, with everything else secondary.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Metaliturtle on July 07, 2015, 02:27:42 PM

Referencing the wiki:

http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Ecology_%28Revised%29 (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Ecology_%28Revised%29)

Is it a viable strategy to have a base that builds just tree farms and sells them on repeat?  This seems exploitable.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Mart on July 07, 2015, 03:03:14 PM

There are two sides to this:
- mindworms and fungal blooms which damage tile improvements do harm to your faction. So getting higher "clean minerals" value is beneficial
- ecodamage causes spawning mindworms, that can be harvested for planetpearls EC. Later in the game you can have literally thousands of EC/turn. That is beneficial, though destroying late game, in my opinion.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Yitzi on July 07, 2015, 05:43:01 PM

Quote from: Metaliturtle on July 07, 2015, 02:27:42 PM

Referencing the wiki:

http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Ecology_%28Revised%29 (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Ecology_%28Revised%29)

Is it a viable strategy to have a base that builds just tree farms and sells them on repeat?  This seems exploitable.

Without my patch, yes.

We decided, however, that the ability to do that (and associated other things) are a bug, so now (if you use my patch starting I-forget-when but I think 2.0) it's based on the number of tree farms etc. you own (if there's been at least one fungal pop), not the number you've built since the first fungal pop.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: lolada on May 14, 2020, 11:55:47 AM

In that formula:

DamageReductionInBase = CentauriPreserve + TempleOfPlanet + NanoReplicator + (PholusMutagen + SingularityInductor)

PholusMutagen and Singularity Inductor count as +1 only each?

 I kind of wondered about their "reduces mineral effect on ecology" description.. looks pretty minitaure.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: EmpathCrawler on May 14, 2020, 05:36:47 PM

It's a divisor so it's very powerful. If you build nothing but the Pholus Mutagen, you've halved the damage factor in all of your bases.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: JimOfLeisure on June 16, 2020, 10:19:16 PM

Really old noob here. Well I mean I bought the game back in 1999 and played it a fair bit, but I was never particularly good at it. (And I'm only 50.) Just a day or two ago I installed it and started playing for the first time in 15+ years.

What's the deal with losing nutrients? I have a rolling moist tile that I built farm+mine+road on (very early game), and it only has 1 nutrient now. I saw it had 2 nutrients after building the farm, but when the former finished up its task it was back down to 1.

I vaguely remember something about losing food in certain situations, but I can't find the details in the manual, datalinks, or online. Something about the mine or mine+road?

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: Fibonacci on June 16, 2020, 10:44:41 PM

A mine will decrease the nutrients a tile produces by 1. In the datalinks, click Terraforming, Construct Mine. It describes the behavior as reducing nutrients by 1, but never below 1.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: JimOfLeisure on June 17, 2020, 12:56:12 AM

Thanks!

So...mind worms are kicking my butt early game, and I'm playing Gaians. I'm guessing 15-20 years ago I wasn't trying to expand quickly, and now I am. I've learned my lesson on unescorted colony pods and undefended bases, but I was just playing a game with 3 bases, a colony pod, and 2 formers in 2134 with 3 sensors around my territory. Then a mindworm just pops up in between a base and a sensor and kills my former with no warning/notice. :mad:

So, did this mind worm just spawn there and attack my former? Or did it probably spawn hidden in the fungus to the east and sneak over? I reloaded the previous autosave to make sure I couldn't see one anywhere, and I couldn't.

I guess part of my question is if mind worms can hide from bases if no sensor is nearby, but also can they just spawn right inside your core and destroy formers at any time?

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: EmpathCrawler on June 17, 2020, 01:25:57 AM

Sometimes! I don't think they spawn in fungus directly adjacent to a base or a sensor, but I two squares out is fair game. If it came from the east it would have attacked that base, instead.


Part of the perils of settling on Planet.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: JimOfLeisure on June 17, 2020, 02:25:37 AM

Thanks. I guess I just got really unlucky. Short of escorting formers, I don't think I could have avoided this one.

And now that I look at it closer, unless mind worms are immune to zone of control, he had to have spawned there, because there are scouts in each base, and I never saw it move. It just appeared and attacked. Good grief.

Maybe this is just a weird game. I've already received notices about two factions being eliminated!

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: dino on June 17, 2020, 06:50:23 AM

Worms spawn randomly in fungus outside of base radius, but also each time you try to enter such fungus square, you have additional chance to spawn a worm on the tile you are trying to enter.

So, you can farm fungus by walking scouts through it in circles, either for money, or for free units with positive planet rating.
Also avoid trying to enter fungus with an unescorted colony pod, unescorted pods are fine in early game, as long as you stay away from fungus.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: JimOfLeisure on June 18, 2020, 01:29:03 AM

Hi again, new question: When/why do you get an extra colony pod at the start of a game?

I've started several games (SMAC not SMACX), most as Gaians, same settings: standard rules, random Planet, standard size, talent difficulty. Sometimes I have a colony pod and a scout at my planetfall base, and other times just a scout.

And when I don't, the first base founded on Planet by someone else is 2104 or so, so I know AI factions at least sometimes get a colony pod, too.

Title: Re: I'm still a new player to SMAC I'm going to ask questions here
Post by: EmpathCrawler on June 18, 2020, 02:03:39 AM

On the lower difficulties, the game will give you a second colony pod if your landing location is "bad" according to some AFAIK unknown logic. It's rare but if you land on a very small island the game will give you a Unity Foil, though it's probably better to just restart in those circumstances.


When you play on higher levels, you'll always start with the colony pod because I guess the game thinks you have enough of a disadvantage.


In general, I recommend playing maps with a lot of land for the challenge once you get the hang of things. The AI isn't great at sea invasions so you probably won't be challenged much.