Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Modding => Bug/Patch Discussion => Topic started by: Buster's Uncle on December 13, 2014, 07:25:56 PM

Title: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 13, 2014, 07:25:56 PM
It strikes me that I may have put this folder in the wrong place when I made it - please discuss.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead?
Post by: DrazharLn on December 13, 2014, 07:46:00 PM
I agree.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead?
Post by: gwillybj on December 13, 2014, 11:11:07 PM
The way it's progressing, seems more a mod and less a theory.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead?
Post by: ete on December 13, 2014, 11:19:16 PM
Could well be a top level forum. It's got more activity than alteria centauri or planet tales, but maybe that's more a case of those two forums wanting to be packed down somewhere.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 13, 2014, 11:29:25 PM
These points have merit, and we should do what will make the most people happy, as far as we can determine.

-But wouldn't that be giving up on Planet Tales?  We could definitely do something with Altera - it's a valuable asset, but basically an archive where we don't expect/hope for posting activity, so maybe a sub of Command Nexus, with GotM made a sub of Altera?  Just that much would make room for Bug/Patch without making the root longer.

For that matter, we should give the BE folders more time to develop an audience, but I seriously doubt they're still going to be hogging the top of the root directory in a year...
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead?
Post by: ete on December 14, 2014, 01:39:15 AM
Alteria Centauri ->CN would be a good start. GotM could stay as a sub of CN, though moving to sub of AC would be okay too.

Planet Tales is tricky.. it does not fit perfectly in any of the other forums, with sub of ToE or some form of merging AAR and it into "creative", maybe including art, as the only vaguely okay options. But on the other hand, it's got 32 threads. It's been on top level for a looong time, I don't think keeping it there to try and drum up activity is productive, and top level space is important. The people who'd write for it would find it in a subforum anyway.

And, yea. I think if we trim AC folders down a bit we can move BE down sooner than later, because it would be scrolling past just a few forums rather than loads. This place's original sell was being super focused on AC, so it does feel a bit weird having another game on top.

Maybe making a new category for AC in other languages and the current alt langs there, below BE, would work? That way combined with other changes we'd have 5 AC forums, 2 BE forums, Alt lang forums, community forums? Not very convinced about that change though. And not sure which of the planet tales ones make sense.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead?
Post by: DrazharLn on December 14, 2014, 02:14:43 AM
Code: [Select]
Modding
  Altera Centauri (Released mods and resources)
  Bug reporting and patch development
Command Nexus
  GotM Archives
Planet Tales
  After Action Reports
Theory of Everything
  Planetary Datalinks {Should probably be scrapped entirely and content moved to wiki}
{Foreign forums}

Would be my suggestion. In general, I think we have too many subforums for the level of activity we attract and should consider merging e.g all the modding forums (and then maintaining a stickied index of released mods or a link to a good index of resources on the wiki) and probably merging the planet tales and AARs.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION .EXE CODERS
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 14, 2014, 02:26:35 AM
[ninja'd]


I'm very interested in your input in this, ete, organizing info efficiently being a special interest of yours.

BE really belongs with Pandora and Other Games - but it's awfully soon to just give up on building activity there quite yet.  However, I never really thought there was any future in BE for us, and it's annoying that the main forum page loads with BE showing and no SMACX but Modding on my browser.  The current arrangement is definitely not going to stay that way forever, and I think the fanfic and Let's Plays folder needs to go back to being a sub now.  sisko?

I would like the idea of making Planet Tales a sub of TOE if not for one thing - the top of the TOE page is too crowded.  Taking out Bug/Patch will help, and I wouldn't be opposed to just getting rid of The Planetary Datalinks.  sisko?  I expect the AC Wiki has an entry for every single thing in there, and I almost never, ever, see anybody browsing - thoughts?



Part of why sisko and I work together so smoothly is that I'm reluctant to just reverse things he's done without consultation, and he's not much for asking me, but not so much for screwing with my arrangements in ways I mind when I log on in the morning.  One of the biggest parts of our jobs running this forum is keeping everyone as happy as we can - and that definitely incudes keeping each other happy.  -So I'd really like his input, although I'm gonna go ahead and do the CN>Altera>GotM Archive thing tomorrow if he hasn't objected - easy enough to re-arrange later.



This conversation has mutated beyond Bug/Patch, so I'd like to hear what the Patchers want, then move this thread to Council Room with a new, broader, title.  Please weigh in, soonest, .exe coders...
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 14, 2014, 02:33:56 AM
Code: [Select]
Modding
  Altera Centauri (Released mods and resources)
  Bug reporting and patch development
Command Nexus
  GotM Archives
Planet Tales
  After Action Reports
Theory of Everything
  Planetary Datalinks {Should probably be scrapped entirely and content moved to wiki}
{Foreign forums}

Would be my suggestion. In general, I think we have too many subforums for the level of activity we attract and should consider merging e.g all the modding forums (and then maintaining a stickied index of released mods or a link to a good index of resources on the wiki) and probably merging the planet tales and AARs.
Not sure - sisko has always put GotMs in CN, not least because MPlayers love scenarios when they're between MP games.  The GotM collection is probably far more mod-heavy than the usual range of scenarios in Altera, and the scenarios really all ought to be grouped together.

-Also, one sub will crowd the top of Modding - two will put everything not stickied off the bottom of the screen on entry, and that's always a pain.

IMAO, we'd always rather have a long root than crowded all-new-posts-below-the-fold forums.  It's just enormously more user-friendly that way.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 14, 2014, 02:52:41 AM
Incidentally, much as modding is my thing, and this is definitely a modder-heavy community, I wonder if TOE doesn't belong on top...

Some of the natural stuff to go there is more casual what's-your-favorite-faction sorta topics, and I've had a few people I was trying to recruit take a look at AC2 and tell me we seemed too hardcore for their blood; well, modders are hardcore, and will still find Modding further down - but we do want more casual fans  -the What is Canon? thread in progress is pretty cool- and we might do better with TOE on top.  And it just seems to me like the general discussion forum ought to go first, by the nature of the thing.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead?
Post by: ete on December 14, 2014, 03:27:20 AM
[ninja'd]


I'm very interested in your input in this, ete, organizing info efficiently being a special interest of yours.

Okay, I'm thinking something like:

Code: [Select]
Theory of Everything
  Planet Tales - With TPD and bug/patch gone, it's not crowded here for sure
Modding
  Bug reporting and patch development - borderline make it a top level forum in this position, but probably sub for now, see how activity goes with projects
After Action Reports
Command Nexus
  Altera Centauri
    GotM Archives  - Maybe straight subforum of CN, more accessible
{Foreign forums} - Feels uncomfortable having two super low activity forums on top level.. but I don't really like the idea of subforuming them anywhere.


Planetary Datalinks - Moved to a long term (possibly staff-only) archive, the wiki has much better info in general but there
may be a couple of things not moved over yet so best not actually delete.

BE - tales moved to sub&moved to Other games soon.

Makes most sense. That puts the general forum at top, usually a good idea, drops the number of top level by two, and generally puts things in sane places. AARs could theoretically be put in ToE too, but activity there is moderately high with things worth reading often, so I'm inclined to keep it as-is.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 14, 2014, 03:39:32 AM
You know - I have no interest in burying my own work, and I put a LOT into some of those GotMs -- but there seriously isn't room for a second direct sub of CN.  It's nice, for staff on patrol, not least, to be able to pop into a folder and see if anything's new at a glance w/o scrolling besides the thread last posted-in.  Same objection as having almost no SMACX folders showing in the root at first glance.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead?
Post by: ete on December 14, 2014, 03:44:22 AM
eh, subforums take up a lot less room than root forums on the root which is what matters way more than space within a forum. I don't feel strongly about GotM placement either way, it does logically fit within alteria centauri so there's a case for both places, but space is not the main concern imo.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 14, 2014, 03:47:00 AM
All I'm saying is that the whole purpose of moving anything anywhere is to make it more user-friendly, yes?  Making sense is part of that, but so is convenience of viewing.  [shrugs]
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead?
Post by: ete on December 14, 2014, 03:52:00 AM
Well, having it as a straight sub is one less click away so kinda more convenient, but the logical placement of inside AC means I think I agree with you on the object level if not for the same reasons, which is close enough. Go for inside AC, can change if it seems wrong later.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 14, 2014, 03:56:30 AM
;nod
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: DrazharLn on December 14, 2014, 01:48:05 PM
Your and ete's plan seems good to me, BUncle.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: scient on December 14, 2014, 02:11:05 PM
I have no preference personally. As long as it doesn't break any thing, shifting around forum locations is fine. I do think that Bug/Patch discussion is oddly placed in Theory of Everything.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 14, 2014, 03:27:13 PM
There was a good reason for that at the time - all the random bug reports already existing were in TOE, and bugfixes weren't exactly modding, in the sense of change being intended.  Now, though, we've probably found all the old reports, and are definitely talking about modding, collectively.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 15, 2014, 02:52:59 AM
Well, not to be impatient or anything, but everyone I especially wanted to get feedback from had been by and either commented or not - I rearranged as ete suggested.

Nothing that can't be undone - your happiness is the whole point of the exercise.  I'll leave this thread here until tomorrow night, anyway, before I move it to Council Room and retitle, so now's your chance to kibbitz/complain before you have to scroll further down the root to do it...
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: PlotinusRedux on December 16, 2014, 11:57:56 AM
I don't think it matters where the discussions are, but it would probably be a good idea to give patch releases more visibility that a post in a sub-forum.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: Yitzi on December 16, 2014, 01:31:45 PM
I think putting it in modding could work, as long as everybody knows where to find it.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: sisko on December 16, 2014, 01:55:29 PM
I will make the patches more visible to everyone sometime this week.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: ete on December 16, 2014, 06:02:31 PM
I don't think it matters where the discussions are, but it would probably be a good idea to give patch releases more visibility that a post in a sub-forum.
Usually Yitzi and the others post in Chiron News Network when they release a patch, probably worth doing that for yours?
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 16, 2014, 06:06:35 PM
CNN posts -Yitzi's are autoposts when he puts up the latest iteration in Downloads- automatically go to AC2's Front Page for maximum visibility...
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: ete on December 16, 2014, 06:48:22 PM
Ah, I see. It'd be good to have the same for Plotinus.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 16, 2014, 06:55:32 PM
You don't HAVE TO post a file to Downloads to start a thread in CNN and get on the front page, of course - but we sure love to have whatever resources we can get in Downloads...
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: PlotinusRedux on December 19, 2014, 05:01:42 AM
Do I have a way to post to downloads?

So far, really, it's been good to work out the kinks with the smaller group here, especially with the high level of computer literacy in this forum--usually 99% of the feedback I get is people who don't know how to use their computer asking me to be their free Windows tech support rather than anything relevant to my code, whereas here every post has been relevant.  This is by far the best experience I've ever had getting feedback.

But eventually I'll want to make it available to everyone.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: sisko on December 19, 2014, 06:49:25 AM
Do I have a way to post to downloads?...

You should be able to see an 'Add a download' link at the bottom of the patches section:
http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=downloads;cat=2 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=downloads;cat=2)
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: PlotinusRedux on January 02, 2015, 12:02:54 PM
I'm not sure at this point I'd make modding and patching separate forums at all.  I just found Ford's posts on the Cavier format under modding from a google search because I've only been reading the patching forum, and it is very relevant to patching--as is his post there about starting on a java rewrite.

It looks like modding is averaging 2-4 topics a month, so I don't think the forums would unduly dilute each other--and it would good for patchers and modders to know what each was up to in general.

Of course, now that I know there's stuff I want to know being posted in the modder's forum, it's no big deal to check both.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: sisko on January 07, 2015, 12:21:36 PM
I will make the patches more visible to everyone sometime this week.
We have links to the patches on every page of the forum now (right column under the 'User' box).
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 19, 2015, 08:15:15 PM
I wanted to update on my latest thinking about BE's undeserved topping of the root in hopes for the future, and, in re-reading the thread to refresh my memory, I've taken Plotinus' thoughts about Bug/Patch to heart.

BE is on its way out.  I'm going to wait until the Rising Tide expansion is out for two or weeks and results in little activity, if that happens, then throw it under all the SMACX into the Other Games category with Other Games and Pandora's Box.  Now, I do hope that someone will step up on the BE Beginner's Strategy Guide, and suspect it would be powerful googling-bait, and could make a difference, so don't get your hopes TOO high, but very probably Other Games before the year is out, depending on the timing of RT.

Now.  Whether to Move Bug/Patch up to root or to merge with Modding?  This could happen tomorrow if I get a flood of replies agreeing on one.  Bug/Patch is the workshop of the single hands-down biggest content asset to promoting this community, the .exe patches, and I'd put it under TOE and over Modding in the root, or in a merge, change the name to "Modding-Bug/Patch" and combine descriptions thus: "Imperative: Build/For .exe modders and the people who love them".

-Unless someone has a better idea.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 19, 2015, 08:43:50 PM
Hmm.  I like a forum showing a chilled sense of humor in things like subforum descriptions as a point of helping establish atmosphere and influencing our culture -and my own druthers for a touch of wit are served- but I wonder if a more newb/lurker-friendly "Game modding of all sorts - bug reports and feature requests for the .exe patch projects in the works" wouldn't supersede that in being functional/utilitarian.

A cuter way to put it that was clever and that as clear would suit me best, of course.  "Mandate: Build" is a more evocative hook for Modding, and I hate to give it up, but not explicit and as idiot-proof, not that we want idiots.

Labeling/branding is not something people tend to notice or give much thought, but it's powerful and important.

Feedback?
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: Geo on June 19, 2015, 09:25:54 PM
I'm probably the only regular here who played quite a bit of Beyond Earth, so don't see a pressing reason to keep it at the top. Even with Rising Tide emerging ln the horizon.
No, the core 'business' of the forum is either the Rec Commons or multiplayer, with modding a strong second.
You could try keep the witty labels for the subsections under the main sections? For instance, "Off Topic" as main header with the Rec Commons (banter), Information Networks (science articles) Hologram Theater (movies and stuff) Virtual World (games),... and so on under it?
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 19, 2015, 09:40:42 PM
That's not bad at all - keep the wit, add a terse, clear, parenthetical label at the end -or beginning.  I'll probably do that.  Let me put my subconscious on it for a day or two...

I'm not worried about your participation in BE, you know - or Blanek's or sisko's (when he's not in RL time-heck), or the other established contributors who have interest in talking about BE.  It's on top -sisko moved it there without telling me, but I get why- for the lurkers to find.  Thinking long-range requires that we give the FAR NEWER similar games a chance to draw fresh blood as they're released or get patched/improved and their audience finds them and maybe us.  It only sucks a little, for the SMACers we're really about, to give the Shiny New Thing you like its unfair chance.  This could be rendered moot if Rising Tide is good/popular enough and Beginners' Guides happen and do their search-baity job, so do keep googling for and posting RT news...

Rising Tide will make the acronym BERT, you know.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: Geo on June 20, 2015, 04:05:15 AM
"BERT, there's a banana in your pants." :P
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 20, 2015, 04:15:51 AM
I done et too much - BERT!
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 20, 2015, 05:52:47 PM
No, the core 'business' of the forum is either the Rec Commons or multiplayer, with modding a strong second.
Beg to differ.  OT is the heart of what's in it for me - this forum is my scam to get interesting people to talk to, as I've freely owned before.  But OT is a tail that always tries to wag the dog of gaming, if a robust OT like I still hope for, and that way lies 'poly and the Troll Pit w/ no on-topic worth mentioning besides a fairly healthy Spanish language sub - and that includes their BE, which self biased hasn't given up on, and is a little healthier than our BE - you ought to check it; it's actually moderated.

But we are and must remain, a gaming forum, or all the drama crap we started a specialty shop to get away from happens.  Currently MP is most active - that changes all the time according to who's fired up about what, and who notices and has time lately.  I could bring Modding back on top for non-me activity in a few weeks if I had time right now.  I wish we had more of the casual lightweight "who's your favorite leader" stuff that's about all that has legs at CFC AC, and more (even hardcore) strategy discussion - something lurkers who have mastered beating easy level love.

Wherever the most activity is, our core business is talking SMAC. ;nod
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: Geo on June 20, 2015, 11:16:31 PM
You must've purchased a nice Virtual World lately. (http://alphacentauri2.info/Smileys/sisko/HippieChick2.gif)
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 21, 2015, 12:35:55 AM
Because I broke into a 'Kirk speech' mid-conversation?

Nossir; I'm just crazy.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 22, 2015, 08:45:41 PM
Yitzi, I'd really like your feedback on the recent thoughts about forum structure and all, as you're the one I most need to please, currently.  -Also, the following:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_Meier%27s_Alpha_Centauri

Check the last paragraph.  Someone has noticed y'all's work and done some (somewhat sloppy) updating.  I'll definitely take it as-is, but there's much room for improvement if we can talk a Wikipedia editor into doing it w/ a suggested text...

-Everyone else can chip in, too.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: Yitzi on July 23, 2015, 12:14:23 AM
Yitzi, I'd really like your feedback on the recent thoughts about forum structure and all, as you're the one I most need to please, currently.

I'm ok with pretty much any of the proposals, but I do think that keeping OT secondary to AC is essential.

Quote
  -Also, the following:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_Meier%27s_Alpha_Centauri

Check the last paragraph.  Someone has noticed y'all's work and done some (somewhat sloppy) updating.  I'll definitely take it as-is, but there's much room for improvement if we can talk a Wikipedia editor into doing it w/ a suggested text...

-Everyone else can chip in, too.

I'm ok either way.
Title: Re: Should Bug/Patch be a subforum of Modding instead? ATTENTION: .EXE CODERS
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 23, 2015, 12:20:10 AM
Okay; that's what I needed to know, and good to have that straight.

BTW - "We have a neat, chilled-out and mature OT community" ain't much of a newb draw, for that matter; gaming content IS.
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